In this insightful episode of SaaS Fuel, host Jeff Mains is joined by Mary Moore Simmons, VP of Engineering at Kibo. Together, they dive into the realities of building and scaling high-performing engineering teams, especially in fast-growth SaaS environments.

Mary unpacks the nuanced challenges of evolving organizational processes, cultivating feedback-rich and psychologically safe cultures, handling “brilliant jerks,” and integrating AI to reduce grunt work and boost developer creativity.

Tune in for a practical playbook on scaling teams, optimizing ways of working, and navigating technical debt as a business strategy, not just a developer’s gripe.

Key Takeaways

[00:00:00] Feedback-Fueled Leadership: Mary's greatest fear as a leader is not knowing where she or her team might be going wrong—emphasizing feedback as the antidote to blind spots and organizational toxicity.

[00:04:53] Process Check: When engineering processes feel slow or clunky as you scale, it's a sign to revisit and adapt. The right process should always speed teams up, not slow them down.

[00:06:52] Culture First Hiring: Early hiring mistakes often relate to compromising on culture or failing to address culture misfits as teams grow. Brilliant jerks cost teams more in the long run, even if they are individually productive.

[00:14:50] Handling Exits with Transparency: Delivering clear expectations and feedback means no one is surprised by tough decisions; transparent communication helps maintain trust when high-performers are let go for culture reasons.

[00:20:38] Normalizing Feedback: Build an environment where feedback is everyday and safe—not just a scary signal of things going wrong. Celebrate when people speak up early and often.

[00:27:00] AI Adoption: AI tools are powerful but still come with learning curves. Early adoption requires empathy and encouragement, especially in startups, and the biggest impact comes from knowledge sharing among engineers.

[00:44:44] Technical Debt as Strategy: Make the business case for addressing technical debt—frame it with impact, not just engineering complaints, to get real buy-in from business leadership.

Tweetable Quotes

"My greatest fear as a leader is that I’m messing everything up and no one’s telling me because they’re too afraid." — Mary Moore Simmons

"Process should always be speeding people up, not slowing them down." — Mary Moore Simmons

"Hiring a brilliant jerk might make you faster today, but it will drag your team tomorrow." — Mary Moore Simmons

"Feedback should be constant and small—don’t let it become a scary event." — Mary Moore Simmons

"Technical debt is not a developer gripe. It’s a strategic conversation with real business impact." — Jeff Mains

"AI tools double my speed, but they can also take me ten times in the wrong direction if I’m not paying attention."— Mary Moore Simmons

Viral Topic: Amplifying Teams with AI

"It's less about automation and more about amplification so if you're building a team, evolving your culture, or just trying to make scaling a little less chaotic, this episode has the clarity you didn't know you needed." — Jeff Mains

AI & Automated Testing: "without automated testing, everything breaks. And I've experienced that. I think probably a lot of other founders have experienced that." — Jeff Mains

SaaS Leadership Lessons

1. Lead with Feedback Openness: Proactively create a culture where feedback is routine, safe, and celebrated—not something to fear.
2. Prioritize Psychological Safety: The best innovation happens when team...