Welcome Laurie Fenske to "Weirdos in the Workplace"! 

Laurie embodies a lifelong philosophy of learning from every experience, embracing each challenge as an opportunity for growth. In 2016, Laurie pivoted her professional focus towards her true passion—coaching. Today, as a MCC level ICF certified coach, she offers bespoke solution-based coaching across North America and Europe.

Laurie’s coaching sessions are energized and focused, aimed at significantly boosting productivity, enhancing leadership capabilities, improving team dynamics, and refining communication skills.

Stay in Touch with Laurie:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauriefenske/

https://www.instagram.com/fscgroup/

For more on Laurie and her Services:

http://www.fscgroup.ca

https://www.facebook.com/FSCGroupIncorporated

 

Welcome to Weirdos in the Workplace, the podcast that celebrates authenticity, transparency, passion, and purpose in our world of work today. And I'm here with the lovely Lori Fenske. Say hi, Lori. Hi, Erin. Thank you for having me out here today. This is awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I'm super excited to have you on the show.

Um, so Laurie embodies a lifelong philosophy of learning from every experience, embracing each challenge as an opportunity for growth. And in 2016, she pivoted her professional focus towards her true passion coaching today as an MCC level, ICF certified coach. She offers bespoke solution based coaching across North America and Europe.

So I just want to pause there for a minute, Lori, because.  As an ICF certified coach myself, you know, as part of the board of the ICF Ottawa, I'm extremely passionate about coaching. And you know, that cause we've worked working together and we've been supporting each other and have known each other for almost eight years now.

So almost since you started coaching, um, I just want to take a minute. To say congratulations for achieving that MCC level, because I know how difficult that really is. I've known people that have been going through that process and it is probably one of the harder things that you'll probably do, I think. 

for recognizing that. Yeah, it was tough. Um, it,  it is what it is and I'm glad to be on this side of it for sure. Yeah, definitely. Um, and the, for those of you who are listening who don't know what we're talking about, MCC is a master certified coach level with the ICF, the international coach federation. Um, and you re you need at least 5, 000 hours in order to achieve that.

2500 hours, 500 coaching hours. Yeah. Um,  I feel like it's 40 continuing education credits. It's working with a mentor coach for at least 10 hours, um, for  preview, previewing your, your client, uh, recordings, how you show up and then an exam at the end of it. So yeah, it was, it was, um, it was a long journey, but, uh,  completely worthwhile.

I'm so grateful that I, that I've completed that. Yeah. And I know from a few other people, friends who've, who've gone through it, they say that the 2, 500 hours is like the easy part,  you know, that's the easy part. It sounds like a lot of hours and it is, but really it's, um, it's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to getting that certification, because you have to be like,  so good at demonstrating those competencies. 

And, um, just, you know, in that same vein. So, after I got through it, I had some ideas on how to set people up for success, because it is, you know, grueling isn't an exaggeration. And so I actually put together an MCC mentorship program that isn't just about. The recordings, because that's often what mentor coaching is, is listening to the recordings, giving you feedback.

But I've made it about everything, right? About the hours, the recordings, the exam, the competencies, all of it. Because I think that people should go in with eyes wide open. And I, I didn't necessarily, which I think was part of the, part of the big mountain to climb. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Your expectations need to be set, I think, in order to have the resilience you need to keep going.

Yeah. Right. It's like, I don't know if I remember when I was like pregnant with my first child  example, some people can relate to maybe, um, I, you know, they say it's going to be nine months. And so, you know, you think that's the end date and then all of a sudden you're overdue and then like those last two weeks are literally torture.

Right. But if anyone, everyone told you it was a 10 month process that nine and a half weeks wouldn't feel or nine and a half months wouldn't feel so bad. Right. Right. Yeah, exactly. Setting expectations. Yeah,  100%. So, um, okay. So folks, we're going to really talk today about Um, coaching, coaching leaders specifically, um, Laurie, I, I, you know, I, I introduced Laurie, but I really didn't introduce Laurie.

So, you know, I've known Laurie for quite a while. We met, um, like I said, almost eight years ago. And Laurie, I think you're one of the most competent, um, driven coaches and resilient coaches that I've ever met, honestly. And I'm, I'm. I'm just, I'm not just saying that, you know, I don't just say stuff, right. Um, you have like a persistence and a, like, it's like a focus that very few people have, and I know that that's why your clients love you so much.

So, um, I really look forward to hearing what you, what all your thoughts are around leaders of leaders.  Absolutely. Thank you so much. That means a lot. I have a huge amount of respect for you, Aaron. So that means a lot coming from you. So thank you.  I appreciate you. Um,  okay. So, you know, I'd love to like, let's begin with like the landscape right now, you know, um, we have a very complex world that feels like it's going very, very fast. 

Um, I think a lot of people out there will resonate, you know, with that, like, You know, kind of like the constant scramble and we're always told, we're always like told that, you know, if we're not achieving some kind of work life balance, we're doing it wrong. Right.  Um, what are the, what are the challenges that you're seeing leaders come in to you with, like, what are they struggling with in their core? 

Well, um, you talk about work life balance and actually, um, I call it work life harmony because I don't know that those two are ever in balance,  but if they can work harmoniously, so giving a little bit this week, getting it back again next week, and that for sure is something, and, and, um, You know, the craziness of remote.

So I'm sitting here in Sherwood Park, you're sitting there in Ontario, um, and yet I feel like you're across, you know, my desk from me.  With that, um, with that remote work comes just this expectation of never turning it off, right? Never turning it off. And, and so I do see work life harmony a lot. And, um, I, I talk to people about, you know, um, Getting selfish, right?

Like,  pre COVID, nobody expected you to work 14 hour days from, from your home office. You know, you were commuting, you were socializing, you were doing all of this. So, we do talk a lot about, about slowing down to, to kind of get forward.  But as it relates like to the executives or the leaders of leaders that I'm seeing, you know, there's kind of, um, I guess, five top competencies or skill sets that people seem to be really gravitating towards. 

Emotional intelligence and, um, emotional intelligence isn't just a buzzword. You know, it's, it's something where people really need to know, um, how to manage their personal emotions. They, they need to know how they're showing up. They need to understand the dynamics of those in their, in their, in their life.

In their circle, um, communication, you know, being a visionary and, and not only having the visionary, the vision in your own mind, but being able to communicate it transparently and get people energized by it, um, elevating performance, nobody wants to do poorly, but how do great leaders get the best out of themselves, their team, the organization as a whole.

Um, I think self awareness is huge. The ability to really  understand, um, ourselves, but, but also how do we interact with others, then how are we showing up with them? Um, and then the resilience, uh, you know, I talk a lot about, you know, You want to work with a leader who can get through a storm,  but not  not know what to do after the storm is a fail, right?

They need to have a strategy. They need to be forward thinking, um,  nimble, flexible to to really come out the other side with a plan in place that they can then communicate and, you know, get embraced and continue and continue forward.  What kind of feelings do leaders, um, at any level, any of your clients have when they're coming to you for support? 

Um,  I think a lot is humility,  understanding that, um, there  is, you know, coaching is not psychology. I mean, it's, it's, it's not therapy. It's a partnership.  And my style of coaching is, uh, you know, through powerful questions, finding solution.  So people, I think first come with a sense of humility, um, having to reach out a bit of vulnerability, which I think is actually a very attractive characteristic in a leader. 

Um,  and I wouldn't say hopelessness, but an, an awareness, like I can't keep doing what I'm doing. How do I find something new to do?  Right. Yeah, they found they've hit, they've hit the end of their capabilities or the capacities in some way. Yeah, they know they need help. Uh,  do they always know they need help?

Not necessarily, not necessarily. Um,  in some cases I'm brought in to an organization and people are chosen to be part of a coaching program.  Coaching programs are often part of a reward system, a merit system. You're seen as an  overproducer, um, you're seen as a high producer or high achiever. And so coaching, you know, is put in front of you to just elevate you even more.

But sometimes people come to it not understanding that, not understanding it's a time of celebration, but rather it's like, Oh, are you the principal? Cause I feel like I'm at the principal's office. Um, and they're, you know, what coaching. My style of coaching is not for any, for everyone. Um, and so there's a lot, some coaches call it a chemistry meeting, um, but that get to know you, you know, I want to hear about them.

I tell them my background. I tell them my belief, what, how I see coaching, my belief in coaching. Um, How I got to be, you know, on this side of the desk, and if it's not a fit, then I'm grateful. I have quite, um, a network of coaches that have different styles than I, and  I introduced them to somebody else, because if it's not a fit, it's not going to work for anybody.

No. Um, yeah, definitely. Like with a positivist group, we have a coach fit guarantee, like a coaching guarantee. So, you know,  if, if it's not a good fit, you know, we'll restart your program with a new coach, or if we don't have a great coach for you, we'll find one. Right.  Um, and I think, I think it's so important and I think it's.

Um, and I feel like we learned this the hard way, or I've learned this the hard way that if you don't get a good fit coach fit, then it, it, it really, you, you can't have a successful program at all. I think it's yeah. Like second only probably to the client's own desire for coaching,  I think.  Um, yeah, yeah,  I always tell my clients, like, we're going to work hard, we're going to do some heavy lifting and we're going to have some fun because I never want a client to be like, Oh, my God, I'm seeing Laurie today,  like, you want it to be something that they look forward to that they're excited to share their achievements with. 

And I have certainly, um, hung on to clients too long. I know that it's part of the learning and building out a successful coaching practice. So, um, yeah, that fit is just so important. So important.  And, uh, usually it's better to quit too soon than too late. It's something I've learned more recently and still probably going to be learning, you know, for the rest of my life, most likely. 

Yeah. Yeah. There are some clients that just coaching isn't for them. That just isn't. They don't, if they don't believe in the value of it, um, it's not going to work. Not because it's, you know, um, um, like a magic wand, but you have to,  I don't push it. I don't pull I'm shoulder to shoulder with my client in their coaching journey.

And some people need to be pushed or pulled. And that just, I don't think that that works as well either, but  yeah, there's a real element of autonomy and self determination when it comes to coaching. And the client has to drive the process. And that's definitely part of an  ICF mindset as well. And I see if, um, Certified coaches mindset.

So,  um,  do you have any good stories? Like obviously not naming any names, but I'm so curious, um, to hear a little bit about, you know, some of the experiences you've had with clients and I'm sure folks listening to this would love to hear, you know, what, what are the kinds of, you know, Developments that you've that you've observed.

Yeah. Great question. Aaron and the one that comes to mind and I have her permission because as you know, coaching is 100 percent confidential. Um, but I do have her permission to share this story just because I think it's really cool.  So I often, um, at the onset of. coaching. We'll ask a client, you know, what's the legacy you want to leave?

Like, how do you want to be known? Because I think we get so committed to like the here and now we forget to think longer term.  And, um, she worked in a,  in a male dominated, more seasoned male dominated environment. And she was the only female at the C suite table at that point.  And so I asked her the question and, and invited her to reflect on it.

That was kind of, you know, an action item for her between now and, and when we met the next time. And she came back into the, into the meeting. Um, and, and she was so excited and which made me so excited. And she said, Lori, I came up with my legacy. I know what I'm building. I know what I want to build. And I was like, okay, what is that?

She said, I want to be known as a powerhouse.  And, and I just thought that that was so cool. And, and so as we got talking, you know, as the only female, she would be asked to get coffee or take notes or, you know, whatever, just  not, I don't think from a mean perspective, but it just made sense to the other people around the table and she said, I want to be a powerhouse and I want to work on characteristics that would build a powerhouse.

She said, because. I don't want them to be scared of me. I don't want them to say I'm scared to ask for coffee. She said, I wanted them to respect me so much. It wouldn't even cross their minds. And, um,  she's still an existing client. She's, uh, you know, been with me typically coaching programs or, you know, about a year.

Um, so she's, she's been with me for that length of time. And it is so exciting to see. I think that's a really beautiful thing. And that's why I'm so happy that, you know, her show up as a powerhouse and the success that she's having because of her mindfulness and intention. I'm being seen as a powerhouse.

That's beautiful. What a transformation for her. Um,  I I would love to be a fly on the wall in one of those meetings and watch her in action and see what, like, what kind of behaviors are she demonstrating, you know, as a result of that coaching with you,  that would be so interesting. How do you make someone respect you so much that they wouldn't even think about asking for coffee? 

It's beautiful.  And of course, you know, we dug deep into what characteristics. How are those characteristics displayed and how do you know that you're displaying them, you know, coaching? I mean, we, we like to take one piece to set people up for success and really focus on that,  um, change of that one habit of how she was showing up and then change something else about how she was showing up.

And yeah, it's been a lot of fun, uh, really a lot of fun to watch her for sure.  And it probably takes you back to the five, uh, your five. Yeah. Um, top five behaviors or what are we, what are we calling that? Um, I think the leadership competencies. Okay, sure. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I recently was doing some research for a project that I'm doing in my private practice and, and Forbes even has, you know, like research on this about, you know, what leaders are struggling with and, and it felt affirming that the people I work with.

Yeah. This is, you know, global, right? I don't just hear it from one or two clients, I hear it from every client in my portfolio or most clients in my portfolio, but this is like a global thing.  Oh, it totally is. Yeah. This is a human thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're all experiencing the world right now. And I don't know.

Like leadership is leadership almost anywhere. I don't know. I mean, obviously there's certain cultural competencies that you need to learn if you're interacting interculturally or in, in different cultures, but, um, but the like people are people, right? Like emotional intelligence is emotional intelligence.

It doesn't matter where you live.  Well, and I think we're all leaders, and that's why, you know, I kind of articulate, um, the clients most prominent, um, or most predominantly in my, in my portfolio are executive, like C suite, um, or leaders of leaders, because I think we all lead. I mean, I,  as an individual contributor, I can still lead, I can still impact. 

But I think it's leaders having to be mindful of their own selves. But also,  you know, all of those around them and how they are leading them to greatness.  Now, you, we started to talk a little bit about respect in that previous client example that you had. Um, something I think a lot about lately and you know that I've been a kind of evangelist of leadership development, um, since certainly since we've known each other, uh, and something that crosses my mind every now and then, and I'm kind of curious what you think about this is  do we know how to lead leaders?

You know, do. Do leaders know how to lead people? If every single person's a leader,  do we know how to lead leaders? You know, and where does the,  you know, one of the things, one of, I can't remember what the quote was, but it's something like to be a great leader, you need to be a great follower.  And I think sometimes, you know,  there's a tension that I, that I see a lot of the time, um, in organizations around, you know,  the, you know, receiving feedback.

So leaders are receiving feedback. Sometimes they're really good at taking feedback. And they're very, um, empathic, right. They're trying to serve everyone and stretching themselves then. And, you know, we know that we can't make everyone happy. Right.  Um, and then people who are at the individual contributor level, often younger employees have a lot of ideas, you know, and I remember I was the same when I was a younger employee.

You know, I, um, I thought I could do everything better than my bosses.  And then it's only through experience that I realized like the actual complexity of decision making within organizations is  way harder than you think it is. Probably there's a lot more that you need to consider, um, than, than you realize you do.

And so are we teaching people to become leaders too soon? Do we know how to lead people who believe that they are leaders?  That's kind of the  So my background was completely in financial services, where I spent my, my corporate Canada career  and, and there was a tendency in financial services  because financial services is so much about sales that people can sell really well, well, obviously they can manage, they can lead and that's not always the case.

Right. Um, you can have some of the top sales people in the world who are promoted into roles of, of, you know, people responsibility and and they don't do it, um, They don't do it. Well, or it takes them a while to get up and running with it. A bunch of different scenarios.  Um,  so I think, you know, are we are we getting people to be people leaders too soon was kind of your question. 

And I think we are if we aren't setting them up for success, we can be if we aren't setting them up for success and really understanding the expectations made what's expected of me as a leader. Um,  and, and being, um,  being so involved in their success as their leader.  That that you really you're you're.

You're, you're training the habits that, that they'll need, but they also have to have that internal desire to build out those habits as well.  Yeah. And context, like, I feel like  we need so much more context now than we used to in roles. How do you feel about that?  Um, from, you mean the roles, responsibilities, expectations?

At every level of the organization.  I feel like context is, is.  Um, much more necessary than it used to be. Not only because people expect it, you know, people expect, you know, I want to know why everything, every decision made,  but like they need it almost, you know? And I think that you can offer people an understanding without having to divulge because I mean, transparency, yes, you, you need transparency, but you can't be transparent about every single decision.

Right and and sometimes there is stuff that can't be talked about. Um, but I think if I and again, it comes down. Really? I hate to keep, you know, bringing it back to those top 5, but if if I'm a leader and I'm communicating and I'm helping my teams understand this is all that I can communicate, but this is legitimately. 

I think that people will respect that and, and they'll be okay with,  we don't know more because there's that trust and credibility that's been established through all of those, you know, different, um, relationship building exercises as well that a leader has to go through.  What's the best way for a leader to, you know, to, to actually get the true respect of their team? 

Um,  there's so much that,  how much time do you have? Um, I think it's a little bit, I think it's a little bit around, uh, you know, understanding themselves. So self awareness. Understanding their strengths and areas of development. Um, but I think it's, it's really building that trust incredible relationship right out of the gate and getting to know people.

They're not just a team member. They're not just  an individual contributor, but. How do they fit the overall mold or the overall necessity or needs of the organization? I think it's relationship building first and foremost. I worked for a brilliant man one time, just a brilliant, brilliant guy.  It was like my first day.

And he said, okay, Lori, just help me understand when I send you an email, do I have to be all like fluffy and ask how your day is? Or can I just tell you what I need? And, and, you know, as silly as it sounds, If he had spent a bunch of time asking, like how my day was, I don't need that. I don't operate well under that.

And so he just kind of cut right to the chase. And I think if I know that someone needs a bit more,  how was your day  as a leader? I should, I should give them that so that I can help them show up as the best version of themselves. But I think it's okay to ask the question. How do you want me to communicate with you?

Right.  Yeah. It's like, what is it? The, um,  the platinum role.  Treat people how they want to be treated, right? Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um,  something you just said there triggered something for me. Oh yeah. You're not like a super touchy feely person necessarily. Like you don't need that. The fluff it's like, let's just get to the point.

And that is something I've always appreciated about you because I'm the girl who has, who writes the email out and it's like super direct. And then I have, before I press send, I have to go back and put. all the fluff in  to the email  so that I don't seem like a cold robot, um, or whatever. But, and there's very few people that I can just, you know, de mask, I think,  right.

Because it's not an attitude. It's not, um, for me, it's not, um, it's not a negative. It's just, it's just, it's just my first instinct. And I, I'm, I'm like a pretty chill person, you know, that.  But the whole point I'm making by this is you're not a fluffy person. I'm not a fluffy person, necessarily.  Although I pretend to be one on TV and, uh, we are both huge proponents of emotional intelligence.

All that to say, well, intelligence is not fluffy, you know, and I would love for you to just say a few words about that. Well, I think that, um, there's a difference between being emotionally, um, intelligent  and, and, um,  hugging people, right? Like, like, I think  you have to show up emotionally dynamic enough to the people that you're speaking with.

Yeah. But you don't have to put, you know, flowers at the end of an email. And, um, my style and, you know, there's a million different kind of, um, assessments out there. My style is very much Uh, in one assessment, it's called a pioneer. So if you think of the word pioneer, what is, what does that look like?

Right? And that's, that's entirely me. And obviously, coaching is not about directing. It's not about leading. It's not about bossing. It's, it's about partnering. And so I do have to, and I don't waver on my own belief system.  But I do have to temper my directness  with certain clients. Um, and, but we talk about that, right?

Um, I had sent an email to a client and after I sent it, it was like, Oh, that might've been a bit, that might've been a good one for Aaron, not such a good one for this client. Right.  And so I just followed up and said, look, like, sorry, if that sounded, um, abrasive or whatever word I used, I said,  I just, I wanted to get my thoughts over to you.

And I just did it, you know, perhaps not as completely as I could have. And I apologize if that was offensive. And let's talk about it the next time we meet, because why would I run from that? Right?  And, um,  she actually wrote back and said, no, no, that's that works for me. That works well for me.  But I think if I was in a leadership position and I did that, and I didn't have the vulnerability to go back and say, oops, sorry, let's talk about this, or the self awareness to even know that you did it in the first place.

Well, okay. Yes. Yeah. But that's where leaders can fail. Yeah. I know that wasn't right, but let's not talk about it. Maybe it didn't go noticed. Oh, it went noticed. All right. Right. Your team is going to notice stuff, but you notice everything by the way, but step in pretty much. Yeah. Have the conversation, right?

Have the conversation. And I think that's what, that's what leaders need to leaders of leaders, executive, they need to do better at having conversation. 

Holy moly. Well, I mean, it's so, it feels like especially certain sectors, uh, and certain industries  that can be really difficult for a lot of people. Like I've heard from men in particular.  You know, and,  you know, I feel like this is just sort of like a, a matter of context and maybe some training and whatever, but, you know, I've, I've, I've heard from men who say that they're actually kind of afraid to say something wrong.

You know, they're afraid they're going to step on a landmine. Um, I don't think, I think it's, you know, we need practice. We need to, you know,  um, what, what do you, what do you say to people who are worried about stepping on a landmine in the workplace.  Um,  my go to is always what's the best possible outcome from that conversation.

What are you looking to achieve? Yeah. And if you can articulate that at the onset of the conversation. So this is what we need to talk about.  Um, does that make sense to you getting agreement? That's going to keep you focused on what you do need to talk about and and potentially not always, but potentially keep you away from the landmines.

Right.  Um, it is, it, it is, I would say, a far more, uh, sensitive time in, in corporate wherever. Yeah. Um, and, but I, I think it's, it's the talking about it, right? And if, if you do stand on a landmine, don't run, talk about it. Wow. Don't know where that came from. I.  Apologize. Be sincere. Right? Yeah. I don't think anybody I know, I can't imagine people going into a conversation wanting to stamp on landmines.

So when it happens,  take responsibility. Oops.  We're all leaders. We're also all human. We've already talked about that. Right? And so how do you recover from that? I think communication is, you know, a powerhouse  diamond that isn't utilized enough. Yeah. Mm hmm.  And I sometimes wonder like reputation, like, you know, I think this is probably a time where reputation is so important, like your professional brand, because if you have a reputation for honesty, transparency, for being direct, like direct, but kind, you know what I mean?

Like those. There's no question that you're giving those things, those qualities. Totally. You can, you know, when, when you, when you screw up. Because we're all apt to at some point, you're probably gonna give you a given a little more grace, you know? Yeah. Well, it comes down, I think you're into that trust and credibility.

Yeah. So if you have, and we have a. a solution focused selling program that we facilitate. And it talks a lot about building trust and credibility. If you've got that trust and credibility set up. Build with a client, they'll tolerate some errors. Yeah.  If you don't, they'll have like, uh, just a zero tolerance.

And so spending more time and that's what I said about, you know, leaders, like stepping into leadership, step,  spend time communicating with your team, understand them, build that trust and credibility. Cause with that will come some grace. Yeah. Absolutely. plane.  So how do you know if someone calls you and they're like, you know, I'm thinking about coaching, you know, how, how can it support me?

Whatever. You're having that initial conversation. How do you know, um, when the coaching, when they're, whoa, why, where am I talking? How do you know if, if they're at the right place, um, in time for coaching, like, how do you know that they're ready?  Um, there's a lot of, um,  information that can be gathered in that initial phone call or initial email.

Um,  but we have a, we've just come up with just, we've, we've just completed this coaching readiness assessment tool, and it's an online assessment tool that that really digs into more, but specifically those 5 areas of focus.  And if there's a gap and I have people way, I'm surrounded by people way smarter than me that could do the coding on this.

So it was not me. Um, but it'll, it'll come back to you and say, okay, here's where you, you scored here. Here's your assessment results on those 5 areas and click here to, to, you know, set up a 30 minute conversation with Lori. And  that, you know,  That tool partnered with that 30 minute conversation is eye opening for both myself and the prospect of prospective client.

Yeah, totally. Um, so  I think that's amazing for starters. So we'll definitely have that in the show notes. So folks who are listening, um, make sure that you look in the show notes and take Lori's evaluation, especially if you're curious about coaching. Absolutely.  And, and by the way, I think, I think that, uh, this is probably like a fair warning.

Everyone has gaps. Like everyone. No, no. Remember I met that person. She had no gaps. Oh yeah, yeah. That's right. Yes. Yeah. Sorry. Laurie met one person who had no gaps whatsoever. Yeah. Um, there's one person. But if you're not that one person,  then you, um, by the way, you have gaps. And so do I, my first, the first leadership 360 that I ever did was like soul sucking. 

I'm not perfect. This is awful.  You know, and then you sit with it and you process it and you realize, yeah, maybe there's some truth in this.  And, you know, people like the 360s,  I love those  because golden nugget after golden nugget after golden nugget. And if you can get  the perspective of others  in a, in a respectful and honoring manner.

Why wouldn't you take that? Right. Yeah. Um, I've done some 360s that were, they were, they were tough.  And, and people will respond one of two ways. This is a dumb idea. Why did we even do it? Or what am I really seeing here? What can I do? Laurie, let's build out and that's, you know, the 360s build out a lot of coaching conversations because what do we know now about the perspective of others? 

Whether it's your truth or not, that's not what's here. It's the perspective of others and how do you have to show up slightly differently  to change that perspective. It's a powerful conversation. I love those. Well, I love all the conversations, but I really, really, really like the 360. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the 360s are a lot of fun.

And I know sometimes they get like kind of a bit of a bad reputation because they can be done poorly. I think there is.  That is possible. Um, so if you're out there thinking like you either hate 360s, you probably have just experienced a bad one. Um, and if you're thinking about a 360, make sure you do your due diligence and ask some questions about it first in the process. 

And if you have any, uh, questions, obviously Lori and I are happy to help with that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, I think it's a super eyeopening, uh, conversation for sure. All right. So my final question for you, Laurie, is,  um, if there was one thing that you want people to know about  a co taking a coaching program,  and especially if they're a leader,  what's the most important thing they need to know to prepare themselves? 

Only one.  That's what I'm trying to sort through. Okay, I'm going to say one, but I'm going to filter in like 14 other ideas. Okay. Right, right, right, right. No, no, no.  So you have to understand that coaching  is really about changing a habit system. So how do you habitually show up as a leader today?  What slight adjustments do you make to show up slightly different tomorrow to have a slightly different outcome? 

Um, it's not losing 20 pounds in a week. This is a slow and steady and very intentional.  process with unbelievably  huge ROI at the back end of it.  Yes.  Um, unbelievably huge ROI. I've personally gone through that. Uh,  I hate the T word, but transformation, you know,  it's overused. Um, but that personal development process and coaching literally changed my life.

Like,  yeah, literally changed my life. Yes. There's a quote by Michelangelo. And I don't have it right in front of me, so I'm going to butcher it a little bit, but it's something like I saw an angel in the marble  and I chiseled to set it free. We all  have angels within us, but it's  meaningful conversation. 

impactful discussion that will allow us to find it to really impact others. And, and what a powerful position that is.  Absolutely. If you can believe, like truly believe to your core, you know, that you are a valuable, beautiful, powerful human being,  like,  you know, how much is that worth to you? Right.  How much could that be worth?

Yeah. Um, yeah.  Thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for inviting me, Erin. I was very excited not only to reconnect with you, but just to be part of all the beautiful work you're doing. I, I watch you from the side and all the things, all the balls you have in the air. You just continue to make impact daily.

So thank you for what you do. Oh, I appreciate you so much. Thank you, Lori.